How do you use your content to promote your book? I asked Joanna Penn. She is an award-nominated, New York Times bestselling author of thrillers under J.F. Penn. She has sold over half a million books all over the world, and her site, TheCreativePenn.com, is regularly voted one of the top 10 sites for writers and self-publishers.

Joanna and I started blogging about marketing for authors at about the same time, in 2007. Joanna smartly focused on independent authors, while we at Author Tech Tips and Author Media focused too much on traditional authors. She got on the ship that was rising, and I got on the ship that was sinking. I've since drunk the indie author Kool-Aid. Joanna, welcome to the show.

Joanna: Thanks for having me, guys. It's funny you say that, because someone asked me the other day, "Why does your blog always come up when people Google stuff?" It's because I started blogging about self-publishing in 2008, when nobody wanted to know about it. If you get in early on something that's not popular, then when it finally becomes popular, you'll be out in front.

James: It's not only that you got in early, but you have excellent content. Thomas and I are both fans of your show. Congratulations on doing it for a long time, and doing it so well.

What is content?

Thomas: I want to talk about content. It's easy for those of us in the industry to assume we know what content means. I was working at a radio station, and they were struggling. I told them, "You need to focus on creating content." One of the staff looked at me and said, "What do you mean by content?" And I was like, "What do you mean, 'What do you mean by content?'"

So what is content?

Joanna: For me, content as it relates to marketing, let's call it content marketing, is creating and sharing online material like articles, video, audio, and images that don't explicitly market your products. Not "buy my book" stuff, but material that attracts attention to your website or your profile.

Lots of people might look at a blog post, and some of them may end up joining your email list, following you on social media, and eventually buying your books. I find it very attractive as an introvert, which is why I've always done it. In nonfiction it's putting out useful stuff, and in fiction, which we'll talk about in more detail, it's attracting your ideal readers.

How does content marketing work for introverted authors?

James: Joanna, you just said a keyword that I relate to, and a lot of our listeners relate to: introvert. A lot of people just don't want to do the marketing. You're saying this is a way for introverted authors to actually do it.

Joanna: This is something I care a lot about. Introverts get energy from being alone, which is why so many authors are introverts. Some authors are extroverts, and of course we all go to events. But generally we're happier alone in a room than meeting people. Even back in the day of big book tours, authors would say in the background how much they didn't enjoy it. I've never heard an author say they love book tours.

Content marketing is so good for introverts because you can do it on your own, behind your computer screen. I have a YouTube channel, and I do videos, but most of the time I'm either on my own or I'm creating videos from my podcast interviews. Right now, we're across the world from each other. We're not even seeing each other's faces.

Content can be a short story, a Pinterest board for your novel, or an article. I just wrote an article on "25 Christmas and Thanksgiving Gifts for the Writer in Your Life". I wrote it on my own, it will help some people, and it will make me some affiliate income. That's content that serves a purpose.

It lets us do attraction marketing without being overly salesy. We can be useful, entertaining, or inspirational, and slowly attract people who might buy. This is a slow form of marketing, but it's how I've built a business, and it's a form I feel very happy with.

Thomas: In many ways, it's a lot like farming. Advertising is like hunting. You go out, you get this woolly mammoth, and your whole village eats for a month, but then you have no food at all. With farming, you do the work for months and get no food, but then you get reliable food moving forward. You have to be willing to do the work with no return, and then you get a more reliable return long term.

The Importance of Owning The Hub for Your Content

Joanna: That's an excellent metaphor, and I totally agree. My income continues to grow every year as my traffic grows. We'll talk about owning your own website, but for me, I own the medium and I own the message. I don't own WordPress, but I pay for hosting, and I can reach people through my networks.

Even if Amazon goes under, if Kobo goes under, if all these things we rely on as authors fail, whether you're traditionally published or indie, since most traditional publishers sell through the same sites these days, you can still make a living. That's super important.

Thomas: It's really critical, because if you own that relationship, you're far less reliant on someone else controlling your income. I was talking with a woman who had trouble with Amazon. All of her books got taken down for a short period, and she didn't know if they were going to get put back up.

There was a misunderstanding, and she panicked, trying to get Amazon support to talk to somebody. If you have that relationship directly, it's easier to go around. Amazon's still a big player, so you want to be there, but you have a lot more freedom that way.

What types of content should novelists produce?

Thomas: What kind of content do you recommend for novelists specifically? What should novelists be creating online?

Joanna: For nonfiction it's pretty obvious. You want to help your target market. For fiction, you have to think the same way. What promise are you giving the reader with your books? I look at Jim's books, for example, and it's inspirational Christian fiction. That's what people are looking for, and that gives him ideas about what to share.

I share all my books. I have several series, one of which, the Arkane series, has a lot of Christian history and archaeology. I have a master's degree in theology, so a lot of religion comes into my books. I do various things on my fiction site, JFPenn.com.

First, I do articles about my research. I went to Israel last November, and we made a video in Jerusalem while I was doing research for End of Days, my most recent Arkane thriller. My fiction readers are interested in that, and possibly yours are too. Jerusalem's old city is somewhere many people would love to go, and many never do.

I do interviews with other authors in the same genre, which is also useful.

I do content posts. For example, "14 Weird and Wonderful Places to See in Spain," because another promise to my readers is taking them into interesting, unusual places around the world. That's a bit like Atlas Obscura, a site I use a lot for my own research.

I post pictures, and anything that's in my books, like the world's best anatomical museums. Within those pieces of content, I'm either talking naturally about the book it relates to, or there's a link somewhere. It all relates to my books, but it won't be "buy my book." It will be "here's what I learned in Budapest, here are some pictures," and then at the end, "here's a book, One Day in Budapest."

Thomas: I want to underline that, because it's a powerful point. I've seen this work many times. Travel blogging about the place where your book is set is very popular. Your book may not take place in the Holy Land. It may take place in your hometown. But for most people in the world, your hometown is an exotic place. They're not familiar with the locations there, and even if you just go around taking photos as if you're a visitor, that could be interesting to readers who don't live there.

Joanna: The other important thing is that you don't have to do any of that. You could use your own story. I know several authors who post short stories on their blogs for free. Kristine Kathryn Rusch does Free Fiction Monday every Monday. She's written a lot of short stories over 40 years, so she has a big backlog.

Another author, M.L. Buchman, a romance author, does it every month on the same day. This is really important, and it's something I want to do more of with my fiction. Mack calls it "ticking the reader clock."

On the 14th of every month, you put out something your readers will love. Maybe it's a short story this month, and next month a behind-the-scenes video, some pictures, or a deleted scene. If you then want to publish it on KDP, you can delete it from your site, but the reader has already got it. Or leave it up with a link to buy the book. You can use your own writing as content. You don't have to create extra content.

Do some authors publish mediocre content that hurts them more than helps?

James: That's really good, Joanna. You mentioned that this author posts once a month, and that brings me to a question. I see a lot of authors who are anxious to use content marketing, and they end up producing a lot of content, but it's all B-minus. Instead of posting great content once a month, they post three times a month, and it's mediocre. Do you find that happening a lot?

Joanna: You could take the 4.5 million books now in the Kindle store and say the same thing. You could say it about podcasting, blogging, or Twitter streams.

The other thing is, it's very difficult to judge. This is something the indie world teaches us. One person's mediocre is another person's treasure. I always use the example of Fifty Shades of Grey, because that's not great literature, but something like 150 million readers loved it. Your Christian inspirational fiction is obviously not the same market, and some of those readers would think your books aren't their type of thing either.

It's dangerous to say what's mediocre, but I'll tell you my definition. It's content that doesn't think of the reader. This matters whether you're writing books, sales copy, a book description, or website content aimed at marketing. The biggest mistake I see fiction authors make is setting up a bad blog. They'll write a post called "My Day Out" with a terrible headline, ramble as if thinking out loud, post it, and then wonder why nobody's interested.

The main thing is to think about your blog. In my fiction blog, I just have a link called "Articles," because the word "blog" is going away. My articles are aimed at entertaining, educating, or inspiring people. They have pictures aimed at what readers would want, and they're written in a way readers find interesting. It's more like a magazine than a stream of consciousness.

Younger people are now doing YouTube channels with a stream-of-consciousness style, and that's very popular. But most authors in our market aren't going to do that.

Focus on Your Readers in Your Content Marketing

Joanna: Mainly, think about what your readers would like, and make it professional enough. If you can do that regularly, then awesome.

Thomas: So you're saying it's not about you as the author. You heard it from Joanna Penn, folks. It's not just Jim and Thomas saying this. It's not about you, it's about your readers.

Joanna: This is really hard for fiction authors. It's much easier for nonfiction. Thomas, you have a nonfiction book, so you're like, "I'm going to help this person solve this problem." With fiction, I've just got a book coming out, Map of Shadows. I got an idea, I wrote the story, and then I was like, what the heck is this story? I had to work out what genre it was.

As novelists, we have to write the book we want to write, the book the muse or God or the universe gives us. Then we have to think, "What will the reader look for to find this? Where will they find it?" You have to take your brain out of the creative room and put it in the marketing business room.

In that room, you have to think about what the reader wants. I'm definitely not someone who writes fiction to market, but after I've written a novel, I think about how I'm going to market it with content. Map of Shadows opens in Bath, England, where I live, and I have a blog post going up called "The Most Unusual Things to See in Bath", the second most visited tourist location in the U.K. Many people searching online about Bath and its Roman history might find that post, and then find my book.

You have to split your brain in two.

Is blogging a waste of time for novelists?

James: What I love about what you're doing, and Thomas and I use this analogy all the time, is that it's like a movie DVD with the extras. Some of the extras you've come up with are stellar, Joanna. None of them tell the story. They're all behind the scenes, about the story and the history and interesting things I'd want to read even if I'm not going to read your book. Then I'm drawn into your book because of that. Congratulations for doing that so powerfully.

Joanna: It's funny you say that, because a couple of years ago there were probably interviews with me saying "don't bother blogging if you're a fiction author." Back then you could put your books on Kindle and Kobo and do a decent job without paid advertising.

But things have really changed, and paid advertising has gone completely nuts. So I looked at how I built a business with The Creative Penn, which has stepped up every year, and I've very rarely paid for traffic to it. It's all based on SEO and search, which is free. I don't pay Google. People search for things, and I provide the answer.

I thought, "How do I get to a point where I'm not dependent on paid advertising for my fiction?" And I realized, why don't I do content for my fiction? I'm even thinking of starting a podcast for my fiction site. I'm coming up on nine years with The Creative Penn, and I get half a million uniques a month there. What if I had that on my fiction site? So I'm recommitting to content for fiction, because it puts it back in my control.

When an author is just getting started, how do they get the word out about their content?

Thomas: What you're talking about is great if someone is more advanced, with an audience already coming to their website. What about the author who's just getting started? They launched their blog two weeks ago, they've had five visitors, and they're pretty sure it's all themselves, plus their wife and mom. What do you recommend for someone just getting started?

Joanna: It's difficult, because a lot of things matter. One really important thing is making sure your website is SEO-friendly and mobile-friendly, because 51% of internet searches are now mobile. You need a WordPress theme that's good for that.

I have a full tutorial at TheCreativePenn.com/authorwebsite. There are a lot of steps, but you need the technical side sorted, because people won't find a site that isn't set up well technically. Then use a good theme, but it can be cheap. The themes I buy at StudioPress are about 70 bucks, premium but not expensive. You don't need to spend a lot, but you do need a good-looking theme.

I share a lot at The Creative Penn and on Twitter. If I land on a website and it's not something I want to show anyone, even if the content is good, I won't share it. It's like when we see a book with a terrible cover and back away. We think, "I've heard that author is great, but that cover is terrible," and we back away quietly. It's the same with websites.

You also have to learn that writing content is different from writing fiction. I learned through Copyblogger.com, which is a great site. Headlines are so important, and most authors don't understand the power of a good one. I end up rewriting a lot of headlines before sharing things on Twitter, which is annoying.

Use images. This is really important, because the social web is very image-focused. I use a plugin called Social Warfare, a premium plugin that's around $70. You can set up shareable images with the right sizing, because otherwise someone shares a link on Facebook and it pulls in a random picture you don't want.

Then you have to start connecting. The truth is, I was that person back in 2008 when I started The Creative Penn. It's like howling into the wind. I started podcasting in 2009, and nobody listened for about a year. You have to get off your website and go tell people it's there. I do that in an introvert way, by following other people on Twitter, sharing their information, and helping them.

One reason I started the podcast was to get traffic back to my website, and it's brilliant. You guys are linked to this interview because you interviewed me, so you get an incoming link and some social media. Helping and connecting with other people is a really good way to get them to notice you, share your stuff, and develop a relationship over time.

Another good example: if you go to a conference, write up your notes afterward using the hashtag. Other people on Instagram or Twitter will find it, may follow you, may check out your site, and may sign up for your email list. That's a really good point, actually. If you're going to publish content to attract people, please make sure you have an email list signup on your site so you can capture that email and talk to them. You're thinking long-term.

Content Marketing is Not Free

Thomas: Email is so critical. I want to underscore one more thing you said. You were talking about tools to buy, like the Social Warfare plugin. Content marketing is not free. There are real costs. You have to pay for hosting and for tools, but it's very inexpensive if you see it as a long-term investment.

The first few months are kind of expensive, but by month 10 you're not going out and buying the Social Warfare plugin again. It ends up being one of the most cost-effective ways of marketing, even though it can seem expensive at first.

Joanna: Yeah, and the other thing I love is that it's a bit like self-publishing. You need to learn some specific things, but once you've learned them, you can use them over and over. When I published my first book, there were a few hurdles, but now it takes me two hours to publish a book. With content marketing, it's the same. I know how to do this now.

When I look at Facebook advertising, Amazon ads, or the new paid advertising tools that appear all the time, I go, "This changes every two months, and you have to relearn it, do new images, all of that." Content marketing hasn't really changed through the whole life of marketing. Content marketing for printed magazines, and even some TV shows, were created as content marketing for products.

This type of marketing has a lot of longevity. Once you learn the principles and invest in understanding it, it's very cost-effective over the long term. And if you have more money than time, which many authors do, you can hire people. I have a copywriter who does the first draft of my posts for J.F. Penn, and then I do guest posts on The Creative Penn. You don't even have to write the content yourself. Get them to do a draft, then edit it into your voice, which makes things much quicker. But that's more advanced advice.

Content Marketing Builds a Relationship With Your Readers

James: One thing I love that you said, Joanna, is that content marketing is ultimately about a relationship. You build one because you're giving somebody something useful that most of the time they don't have to pay for. Because of that, a relationship starts developing.

If you have the attitude of "I'm going to help you, entertain you, or educate you," you start to build a relationship. I have a friend with a saying I absolutely love, "When people like you, the rules change." When people like me, they'll do things for me they wouldn't have done before we formed a relationship. I love the idea that through content, we're building relationships with people.

Joanna: That's only going to become more important. I'm a bit of a futurist, and anyone who listens to my podcast is like, "Yeah, yeah." We're in an age where artificial intelligence is coming. There are already AIs that write nonfiction content, AIs writing up to a junior-school level, and even one in Japan that was a finalist for a literary award. I say, we do what we have to do to safeguard our future. I believe AIs will eventually be as "creative" as we are, and I'll have an AI assistant in the future.

What's important, like you said, is that personal relationship. If people know, like, and trust you as a person, that's why I think video is a good idea for authors. If you can cope with it, doing some video is good, because then it's your face and your smile. Or, like we're doing, your voice. You can hear the smile in my voice when I'm smiling. These are ways people can recognize you and think, "Yes, there's a real person, I care about them."

This is a long-term relationship. We want people to buy our books for the long term. I just can't see content marketing going away. In fact, it may end up being the only authentic marketing, as people get sick of paid ads, which is definitely happening.

Thomas: You were talking about how TV shows have done this. A lot of people don't realize that soap operas are called soap operas because they were created to make people feel a bit icky watching them back in the 1950s. Procter & Gamble, which sponsored the shows, would then sell soap advertisements. If you watch a soap opera today, you'll still see Procter & Gamble advertising soap. It's still how they sell their soap, and it's been working for them for 70 years.

What tools do you recommend to make content marketing easier?

Thomas: We're pretty much out of time, but real quick, do you have any other tools you recommend for making content creation easier?

Joanna: I've mentioned some of the technical tools. Another good one is Canva, a free image resizing and creation site that's excellent. I use it almost every day, because so many of these sites want different sizes for their images.

The main thing is actually upskilling around things like headlines. I recommend a one-day approach. Go to someone like Copyblogger.com, which has a lot of free e-books and articles, and learn a bit about headlines. Then go to your local magazine store, or look online at BuzzFeed, and study the headlines people are clicking on. Think about how you could spin that for your book. I try to do that on JFPenn.com. Self-education is really important.

Also, think about what you consume. People listening to this obviously listen to podcasts, so there's a chance you'd create one. If you watch YouTube, maybe you'll create YouTube videos. If you spend a lot of time on Pinterest, do Pinterest. But if you go to these other sites you don't own, make sure you also post that content back on your own site, because you want to build your own traffic over time.

I don't agree with blogging on Facebook or Medium, or only putting images straight on Pinterest. On Pinterest, for example, put the image on your website and then pin it from there, so the click-through goes to your site.

You have to make sure everything drives back to your website, and then have your offer. JFPenn.com has a free thriller you can get. Just take it step by step. Go to the Wayback Machine and look at TheCreativePenn.com in 2009. It really was terrible, and I didn't even have JFPenn.com then. Just get started, and over time you can make it better and better. Always think about the reader first.

Thomas: I agree 100% about sending people back to your own website. If you don't believe me, just feel a little bad right now for someone who built their platform on MySpace 10 years ago, because that's where everyone was. They had a huge MySpace following and were getting their books out. But since they invested in that space, now no one's going to that party anymore, and they're having to start over from scratch.

One more tool for those of you intimidated by headlines, because Joanna is exactly right about how important they are. It's the Advanced Marketing Institute's headline analyzer. You paste your headline into the website, and it tells you how emotionally resonant it is. I've found it useful. It's artificial intelligence, so it's not perfect, but it will tell you how emotional you're being, which I realize is a little weird. Joanna, you're a big fan of the centaur approach, where humans and computers work together to do more than either could alone.

Joanna: They're already doing that. Look at us now. We're using computers and the internet to be bigger than we are in real life and reach more people. We're already there, but I'm looking forward to doing more of this in the future.

James: Well, Joanna, I think we could talk for another three hours, but we need to wrap up. For listeners who don't want to go back to the start where we mentioned your sites, can you give them again, so people can find out more about you and get some of that awesome content?

Joanna: Sure. My site for writers is TheCreativePenn.com, where you can get a free author blueprint and lots of free videos and content to help you on your author journey. I have The Creative Penn podcast, and I'm on Twitter @thecreativepenn. My fiction is at JFPenn.com.