We’ve been mapping classic films onto the Noble/Grim + Bright/Dark axis (the four-quadrant version of the Strauss-Howe generational turnings).
- Noble = Inner World is heroic, sacrificial, morally purposeful characters.
- Grim = Inner world is cynical, opportunistic, anti-heroic, or satirical.
- Bright = Outer World is hopeful or good outcomes for someone (good times are created).
- Dark = Outer World is bleak, pointless, or crushing endings.
Noblebright: “Hard men make good times.” Noble sacrifice delivers peace and prosperity for the ordinary people.
Grimbright: “Good times make weak men.” “The world is absurd and corrupt, but let’s have fun robbing it anyway.” Cynical anti-heroes chase personal gain with dark humor; the tone stays entertaining.
Thomas: I watched a couple of movies recently because I’ve been curious about what grimbright looks like in practice.
We have these four turnings. We’ve recently shifted from the third turning, “good times make weak men,” which is the grimbright era. Now we’re entering the fourth turning, “bad times make strong men,” which is nobledark. The times are hard, but the men are becoming noble. To understand nobledark, it helps to look at its opposite, grimbright, which is the photo negative.
I watched Kelly’s Heroes. I’ve been wanting to show my children some good World War II movies that are age-appropriate. I don’t want to watch Saving Private Ryan with them, so I’ve been looking for older films where they can get a sense of tanks and guns and what World War II was without a lot of blood and gore.
What I remembered about Kelly’s Heroes was that it had tanks and a hippie driving one. I figured that had to be fun. But as I watched it with my sons, I got more and more horrified, because it’s a quintessential second-turning, awakening, grimbright story.
In the story, a group of GIs discover Nazi gold 20 miles behind enemy lines and decide to steal it. They punch through enemy lines, and it ends up being a breakthrough that’s good for the whole war effort. In that sense, it’s bright, because we’re winning the war and we know in context we’re going to win.
But as I watched, I realized this movie isn’t about World War II at all. The men look bedraggled, out of uniform. It looks like Vietnam, because the film was made in 1970. It’s a commentary on Vietnam, and the message is, “Why are we even fighting this war? What’s the point? Let’s just get rich.”
At the very end, they can’t get the gold because their tank is broken down, and there’s an SS officer with a Tiger II parked in front of the bank. They end up teaming up with the SS officer. Not just a German soldier. Straight-up SS, in the SS uniform. If you know anything about World War II, these guys were actual Nazis. They killed other Nazis. They took pride in their war crimes.
They team up with the SS officer to steal the gold and ride off into the sunset, including the SS guy, because it’s just about getting money. The characters tell themselves the world is broken and evil, even though it isn’t. The world is still bright in the context of the story, but they’re lying to themselves. It’s just about grabbing the money.
How does grimbright compare to noblebright in westerns?
It was very similar to The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, which is a very early grimbright story. It was revolutionary when it came out, because if you go back just a few years before that, you have movies like The Magnificent Seven, which I also recently watched with my kids. It’s not as good as The Seven Samurai, which I still think is a masterpiece. It’s the same story, just copy and pasted.
In The Magnificent Seven, you have seven gunslingers who go to protect a village of farmers from bandits, and most of them die. It’s very heroic, very noblebright. Good men make a bright future through their sacrifice.
Jonathan: They’re not good men, though. I think it’s grimbright.
Thomas: This is where it depends on how you interpret it. When I rewatched it, the original really does present them as good men. It’s torn because it’s coming out right at the end of the first turning. The beginnings of the second turning are starting. They give these men flaws. One is a coward, and one is a drunk. But ultimately, they’re heroic. They sacrifice themselves, and it’s through their heroism that they make a bright future.
Jonathan: Which is the bright. But initially, it’s very grim. The world is bad. There’s more power coming down on the powerless, and the only ones who stand up to stop it are gunfighters, criminals, and mercenaries. Murderers. You could argue the guy who recruits the others is noble, but the ones he recruits are not.
Thomas: But they’re willing to fight and die for basically no money to protect people who aren’t their people.
The Seven Samurai plays on a class division that we don’t really have in America, especially when the film was made, which was probably the lowest point of classism in our history. They shifted the setting to Mexico. Why do these American gunslingers care about Mexican farmers? They don’t, but they come to. Through their noble sacrifice, hard men make good times, and those hard men don’t get to enjoy them. They die. They don’t experience it. They sacrifice themselves.
It almost starts nobledark, with a dark world, and leaves as a noblebright story where they sacrifice themselves and don’t get to enjoy what they made possible.
Can you blend multiple turnings in one story?
Thomas: You can blend these turnings, and if you pull off the blend, a story can become even more popular and enduringly popular because you appeal to two parts of the turning. Right now, while we’re at a crossroads, learning how to blend is important. A lot of readers are still drawn to grimdark. There’s a music video that just went viral that’s very grimdark, the “Generations” video, with bullies in school, very masculine, beating up kids.
Is StarWars noblebright or grimbright?
Thomas: This example blends two turnings we’re not in, but it’s one you’re all familiar with. You may not have seen Kelly’s Heroes or The Good, the Bad and the Ugly recently, but you’ve all seen Star Wars.
I was really puzzling over whether Star Wars is noblebright or grimbright, and the answer depends on who you see as the protagonist.
If the protagonist is Luke Skywalker, it’s noblebright. Luke is all good, the Empire is all bad, the morality is clear, and good wins. But if you see Han Solo as the protagonist, suddenly it’s grimbright. He’s just in it for the money. He’s straight out of The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, straight out of Kelly’s Heroes. “If money is all you want, then money is all you’re going to get.” He’s very mercenary.
Here’s the brilliant twist, and why The Empire Strikes Back is considered by many fans to be the best film in the whole series. In Empire, Luke Skywalker becomes disillusioned and jaded. His whole world is falling apart. Han Solo, meanwhile, becomes a hero who sacrifices himself for the cause. Instead of taking the money and paying off Jabba the Hutt, he chooses to keep helping the Rebellion. He goes through a form of death, frozen in carbonite. The heroism he tasted in his grimbright era pulls him into his noblebright era, and he goes full sacrifice.
Luke, on the other hand, becomes bratty and disobedient and becomes grimbright. He’s not chasing money, but he’s chasing his own way. He’s not a hero. When his friends are being chased by the Empire, Luke isn’t there because he’s seeking inner enlightenment. That’s very second-turning, very awakening.
Jonathan: I don’t agree with you at all, and it feels like you didn’t watch the movie.
Thomas: Give me your rebuttal.
Jonathan: What you’re describing are character arcs. Luke starts noble. He dreams of becoming a pilot and fighting the Empire, then loses his family, then loses his mentor, and comes back up to be the hero who blows up the Death Star. There’s a dip in his arc as he’s learning to become the hero, and another hero sacrifices himself to help Luke get there. He stays noblebright throughout, even though he becomes grimmer in the middle and then comes back up.
Han Solo remains grimbright because he remains cynical. “Bright” describes the end of the arc. Han sacrificing his safety by coming back to knock Darth Vader off Luke’s tail is the bright of his arc in that movie, but he remains grim and cynical throughout.
In The Empire Strikes Back, they’re not running from the Empire when they leave Hoth and Luke goes to Yoda. They did what they intended to do. They evacuated the base. There’s no abandonment. Leia gives him specific permission.
He goes to Dagobah and his noble assumptions are challenged by a new mentor who doesn’t teach him the way he thinks he ought to be taught. Then he has the experience in the cave, where it turns out he has darkness inside of him. He’s connected to the darkness he’s trying to fight.
Thomas: That’s the grimness.
Jonathan: No, that’s fear. It’s different.
Thomas: He sees that he is Darth Vader. He’s realizing he has evil within.
Jonathan: No, it’s fear. When he hears his friends are in trouble, he panics. The fear drives him to leave, and then his fear is realized when Vader makes the big reveal.
Spoiler alert, Darth Vader is his father. But at no point does he go grim. We have disillusionment in a noble character. Disillusionment doesn’t work on a grim character, because grim characters already know none of this is real. Han Solo would never be affected by having a mentor teaching him the wrong way.
Luke is affected by that, and you can see it in Return of the Jedi, which is what I call the end of Luke Skywalker’s arc, because we don’t count anything after that.
Does Luke grow weaker or stronger through the trilogy?
Thomas: Before we get to Return of the Jedi, if you look at Luke’s actions, he starts very courageous and heroic and grows in cowardice and disillusionment over the course of the film. By the end, he’s sad, his arm is cut off, he’s dangling, he’s lost, he’s failed, and he’s given into his fear. He had a noble motive, and that’s why it’s grim and bright. It’s the mixture. This isn’t grimdark. It hasn’t gone full grimdark. It’s still in the early phase of grimbright.
Jonathan: He’s not grim because he’s holding onto the one thing he understands, which is his friends. He needs to go save them. That’s driven by fear, not cowardice. He’s going to fight Darth Vader.
Thomas: He leaves because, as you just said, he’s afraid. He gives into his fear. Fear is the path to the dark side.
Jonathan: Fear is not cowardice. You want to talk about George Lucas’s twisted morality? We can. Fear is a natural survival instinct. Luke is afraid of failing Obi-Wan. He’s afraid of failing the Jedi and his destiny.
When he gets there, he’s fighting Darth Vader by himself, a cyborg monster who killed the Jedi with his own hands, even the children. He fairly well against this monster, even with minimal training. The thing that breaks him is the realization that there is darkness inside him. He’s connected to it. That accounts for the wail he gives when Vader tells him, and he has to flee from the darkness in front of him. It’s great storytelling. But at no point does Luke go grim. He’s not cynical.
Does the emotional tone of Empire feel grimbright?
Thomas: The emotional impact of The Empire Strikes Back, the way you feel at the end, is far more similar to the feeling after Kelly’s Heroes or The Good, the Bad and the Ugly than the feeling after The Magnificent Seven. You don’t feel like good has conquered. You feel that grimness of defeat, that compromise. But it’s not full grimdark because at least Luke is still alive. At least there’s a lingering hope. That’s the blending.
This is why grimbright is hard. It’s a grim setting with bright characters. We’re agreeing about the characters being bright, but the setting is somber. The grim and noble axis has to do with the inner world, and the light and dark axis has to do with the outer world.
Right now we’re in the fourth turning, which is very outer-world focused. I don’t care if there’s a six-inch separation between your head and your heart. You grab this rifle, you hold this trench, and you hold the line, because otherwise darkness wins. We’re not worried about the inner world right now. We want justice to prevail. We need to do the right things.
But in 20 or 30 years, as we get into the second turning again, we’re going to start worrying about whether or not you believe it. Right now, it doesn’t matter if you believe it. It just matters what you do. Get the job done or evil will prevail.
In the awakening, once you’ve gone through the difficult fourth and first turnings and reach the second turning, there’s a longing for unity. You have to believe it deep down.
Psalty the Singing Songbook is a grimbright children’s story. He’s crying because people aren’t worshiping Jesus from their hearts. Their emotions aren’t in it. It’s a very grimbright story from the 1970s, solidly second turning. The world is bright. Everyone in the world of Psalty is a Christian, but it’s sad because their inner worlds are not in alignment with the outer world. That’s the same grimbright feeling we see in The Good, the Bad and the Ugly and Kelly’s Heroes, and that grows in The Empire Strikes Back.
Why doesn’t Return of the Jedi resonate as strongly?
Thomas: Return of the Jedi doesn’t resonate as well because it’s more noblebright, and by the time it came out, we were solidly in the grimbright era. Ewoks conquering the evil Empire was out of sync with where the culture had gotten. It was still a good film, and as a kid I preferred it, but most people rank the third one lowest. The contrast between Luke and Han also blends. They both merge toward the middle and don’t play off each other in nearly as interesting a way.
Jonathan: In terms of the trilogy, you have noblebright, then the sag of the character arc in the middle, which is supposed to be dark. Then it comes back up to noblebright because Luke has rejected the darkness.
He does that when he throws his lightsaber away. I’m grim. I’m practical. I would kill both of them because they’re both bad guys. But for Luke, as a noble person, it was important to make the declaration, “I am a Jedi. I’m not like you.” That declaration was more important than actually winning the fight. His nobility increased. That’s why it’s such a great end to his arc.
I’m not in the camp that hates Return of the Jedi. I think the Ewoks are hilarious. Little terrorist pandas taking down the Empire. Han Solo gave up the Millennium Falcon so the mission could be accomplished, and that would never have happened in the first Star Wars. He moved from grimbright to noblebright. He was capable of that sacrifice, even though it pained him. Then he went into a fight that’s really not winnable.
Thomas: Skywalker goes from wearing all white at the beginning of A New Hope to wearing all black at the end of Return of the Jedi. There is a grimness to his story.
Jonathan: It does not touch his character. Even when he goes to Jabba’s Palace in all black, he’s there to destroy a cartel and free his friend. When he sacrifices himself to go to the Death Star to meet the Emperor, he maintains nobility in spite of the darkness surrounding him. There’s a visual component to the setting, but it doesn’t touch his spirit.
Contrast that with Anakin. George Lucas is good at visual storytelling.
Thomas: You just nailed it. “There’s a visual component to the setting, but it doesn’t touch his spirit.” That’s what grimbright is.
Jonathan: No, it’s not. Grim is a perspective. “I am grim. I am practical above all else.” Rogue One is grimbright. One of the characters, Cassian Andor, will kill informants to make sure the Empire can’t question them or betray his allies.
Thomas: How is that not grimdark?
Jonathan: It’s grimbright because of the way it ends. Bright is about the ending.
Thomas: That’s like saying The Matrix is grimbright because it has a happy ending.
Jonathan: It is.
Thomas: No. The Matrix is grimdark. Neo has become powerful, but the robots still control everything. Everyone is still enslaved. The best he can say is, “I don’t know how this is gonna end. All I know is I’m gonna do something,” and then the music rolls.
Jonathan: Grimdark is you can’t win.
Thomas: Let us know what you think.
Jonathan: You don’t read grimdark. I’ve been trying to get you to read Warhammer 40K for years.
Thomas: I’ve read 40K.
Jonathan: The Horus Heresy is not grimdark. Parts of it are.
Thomas: I read the one about them guarding that planet and they’re all dying off.
Jonathan: Helsreach? That one’s great. Do you consider it grimdark because most of them died? It’s not. It’s grimbright.
Thomas: How would I map that? They win in the end. The primary theme is in the line. That should make it nobledark.
Jonathan: Maybe you’re right, maybe nobledark. The primary line is, “We are judged in life for the evil we destroy.” That’s what the main character works through in the whole book. He starts grim, dark, cynical. He doesn’t believe in anything. He doesn’t even believe in the rank he’s been given. But by the end, fighting for mankind and destroying everything he can to the point that his armor is falling off his body, he’s one of the only survivors. They call him the hero of Helsreach, and the last line is “as if there was only one,” because it expanded his perspective to appreciate all the heroes of mankind. That’s the bright ending.
Thomas: We’re now discussing a book none of our audience has read.
Jonathan: I know. But we’re talking definitions, the way we understand these things. I worked with mostly grim people. There are so few noble Marines. Everyone perceives us as noble because the things we do end up bright. But our job is to go and destroy, doing dark things in dark places to dark people to destroy evil. Nobility is how it’s perceived afterward.
How does the grim/noble axis apply to Luke Skywalker?
Thomas: Grimbright is good times making weak men. Going back to Luke Skywalker, he’s growing in power by learning to use the Force, but he’s becoming weak from a character perspective.
This is part of the confusion, because at the beginning, he’s all good. There’s no darkness in him in A New Hope. He’s just a good person. Part of the reason some people don’t think he’s very interesting. He’s growing into this conflicted character, having both good and bad. In the climax of The Empire Strikes Back, he looks at Darth Vader and sees himself. That’s good times making weak men. Whether that weakness is fear or his own evil, the good times of the world are making him weak as a person.
Jonathan: He has had nothing but hard times the entire time. It’s a training-to-failure moment. He’s so depleted because he’s been doing nothing but training, being stressed, pushed to his limits emotionally, physically, and in terms of his power. When he encounters Vader, that is the failure point. He’s not weak. He’s tired.
Thomas: What do you think him seeing himself as Vader represents? I think it represents evil. I think it represents the dark side. I don’t think it represents fear.
Jonathan: I think it represents fear. “Fear is the path to the dark side.” That’s literally a line in the movie.
Thomas: Is that in this movie or the prequels?
Jonathan: I’m pretty sure it’s The Empire Strikes Back, but it might be The Phantom Menace. Yoda says it both times in my head.
Thomas: Let us know in the comments what you think. Is Star Wars grimbright, grimdark, or noblebright? Where would you map it on the spectrum? How do you incorporate multiple turnings into one story? Can you capture two turnings in one story?
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