In this episode we are going to talk about ghostwriting … how it works, and how you can apply that to your career and help make you money.
To help us with that, we’ve invited Arlene Gale onto the show. Arlene is a writing coach, and a multi award winning, number one bestselling author. She’s ghost written hundreds of books and thousands of articles. And she’s just released her own 8th book, Book Business Blueprint: Build Credibility, Stand Out from the Competition, and Skyrocket Sales by Writing Your Book, which became a bestseller in September.
What exactly is ghostwriting?
Jim: In this episode, we’re going to talk about ghostwriting, how it works, and how you can apply it to your career to make more money. To help us, we’ve invited Arlene Gale onto the show. Arlene is a writing coach and a multi-award-winning number one bestselling author. She’s ghostwritten hundreds of books and thousands of articles, and she just released her eighth book, Book Business Blueprint: Build Credibility, Stand Out from the Competition, and Skyrocket Sales by Writing Your Book, which became a bestseller in September.
Most writers know what ghostwriting means, but the definitions vary greatly. Can you start off by describing what ghostwriting is?
Arlene: My definition, and the one I grew up with professionally, is that you’re a writer who’s a ghost. You stay in the background. You’re not seen, heard, or involved in taking any credit. You produce a finished product using your writing skills and know-how, and somebody else goes out and claims it as their own. There are lots of pros and cons to that.
Is there an integrity problem with ghostwriting?
Jim: Some writers figure that if they’ve put all that time, energy, and skill into a book, the person whose name is on it and claims authorship creates an integrity issue. Some want acknowledgments at the very least. Others say if there’s not “with Arlene Gale” on the cover, they won’t do it.
How does that come into play for you and other ghostwriters?
Arlene: It’s not really an integrity issue, it’s a contractual issue. If you contract with somebody legally to perform a certain service at a certain level with certain obligations, you’re a writer for hire and you’re not to get credit for that work.
For several decades, that’s what I did because I didn’t have a well-known name and I was trying to pay rent. I have a passion for writing, but I wasn’t ready to write the next great American novel. I still had to pay my bills. Other people can do the same while they’re working on their novel or nonfiction. It’s a legitimate line of work.
From my perspective over the last few years as a book writing business coach, I’ve decided I won’t work as a pure ghostwriter anymore. I bring too much credibility, too many connections, and too much know-how to the table for my name not to be on the book.
Instead of ghostwriting, I see it as a writing partnership. It’ll be “XYZ with Arlene Gale” or “the story told by so-and-so with Arlene Gale.” Co-authoring provides credibility to both parties. The person I help write the book benefits from my credibility, my social media and, my third-party referrals, and I benefit from their network. I’m all about the win-win scenario. It does take more time to write a book as a co-author, which is essentially a visible ghostwriter, than it would if you just coached the writing process.
What are the biggest pros and cons of ghostwriting?
Jim: Tell us your top three pros and top three cons of ghostwriting.
Pro #1: A ghostwriter can get your idea onto paper.
Arlene: A lot of people I work with want to write a book. They’ve got great ideas or a great personal or professional story, but they don’t have the skill or time. Those are perfectly legitimate reasons, but they’re not insurmountable. I lay down the path and help them overcome those reasons. That’s pro number one. Working with a ghostwriter or co-author or writing coach takes the book out of my client’s head and gets it on paper.
Pro #2: The client has a professional writer to help.
Pro number two is that the client has someone who knows the writing process, who can lay it out and make it easier, make it more fun, make it less isolating, and help them feel successful from start to finish.
Pro #3: A ghostwriter breaks down the process into the correct manageable steps.
Pro number three is that working with a ghostwriter breaks down the process step by step and helps a person not just start a book but finish it. Get it done, get it done right so it’s marketable and sellable, and make it easy and fun.
How do ghostwriters get paid?
Thomas: Is it typically a one-time payment, an ongoing royalty, or a mix? What’s the most common way ghostwriters get compensated?
Arlene: If you’re talking about a pure ghostwriter, someone contractually obligated to write the book without getting any credit, it will be a full payment. The only compensation is what you’re paid to write the book. That’s why a pure ghostwriter is really expensive. They’re not going to get any compensation other than the investment of their time up front.
If you’re talking about a co-author situation where I’m serving as a writing coach and getting credit on the front cover, a mention in the inside front cover, or my bio in the back, then it can be a lower cost.
Writing coaching is the low end, co-authoring is the middle price range, and pure ghostwriting is the higher price range. As a co-author, I would lower my ghostwriting rate and in turn get some sort of agreed-upon sales percentage for the book, whether retail or wholesale.
Thomas: By a high price, we’re talking five digits typically for a pure ghostwritten book.
Arlene: If you get somebody who knows what they’re doing and can get the job done, yes. Mid five figures probably.
Thomas: Six figures if you’re ghostwriting for a president or other A-list celebrity.
Arlene: Those are very different client markets. If you’re talking about sports celebrities, actors, and musicians, a publisher is going to pursue them and assign them a ghostwriter. I’m talking about people who have a story to tell because they want to fund a nonprofit or build a speaking business, coaching business, or credibility in whatever arena.
How hard is it to break into ghostwriting?
Jim: When you and Thomas were talking about low to mid five figures for ghostwriting, I’m sure some listeners are thing that sounds appealing. A lot of our listeners are novelists who aren’t making boatloads of money off their novels yet.
Is ghostwriting something they can supplement their income with? How hard is it to break in, and how hard is it to get good at it?
Arlene: The more you practice, the better you get. I would highly recommend that everybody write. If you want to be a published author, journaling for your own edification and growing your writing skills is valuable.
As far as getting into the field, if you want to write and make money because you still need to pay the rent, there are lots of ways to do that. You can write for magazine articles, television, advertising, production, newspapers. Search the internet for online magazines that are looking for writers in your area of interest, whether it’s robotics or technology or cooking. You might get a byline or they might just pay you for the article. Either way, you practice the skill, you build the skill, and you’re making some income.
If you want to be a ghostwriter, you have to be niche-y. I write nonfiction, and my experience is in nonfiction, whether it’s a personal or professional story. Although I read sci-fi, I’m not going to ghostwrite sci-fi because that’s not my wheelhouse.
If you want to be a ghostwriter, figure out what your strength is and find people you can work with within that strength. Otherwise, there’s tons of stuff out there you can get paid to write.
Thomas: A great matchmaking website for finding ghostwriting jobs is Upwork. At any given time, you’ll find dozens if not hundreds of ghostwriting projects where different ghostwriters are applying and trying to convince the client they’re the right fit. You can look at reviews from previous clients, and the prices range widely.
I’ve worked with writers from Upwork when I was running marketing for a dentist website. We found a dentist who had quit practicing to stay home with her kids but was looking for work. She wrote amazing dental articles for us. It wasn’t the normal intern rehashing stuff online, and she was really happy to make money while staying home with her kid. We were really happy to have a real dentist writing our articles.
Arlene: There are lots of ways to exercise those writing muscles, and I encourage everybody to do it. Don’t just focus on one product or project, whether it’s yours or somebody else’s. Go out and write, because you’ll just get better.
Jim: This is an opportunity for people to do nonfiction ghostwriting, fiction ghostwriting, and article ghostwriting. It seems like this would be a way to increase your skill set exponentially and get paid doing it at the same time.
Can ghostwriting help you find your voice without risking your brand?
Thomas: I remember talking to a temp worker who said, “I’m trying to figure out who I am, so at every job I’m trying out a new personality.” They got a whole new set of coworkers every few weeks. That was a little weird, but they were a young person trying to find themselves. At least they were getting paid for it. It’s cheaper than backpacking around Europe.
In a sense, ghostwriting is a way to do that without diluting your brand. Write a little bit of this, a little bit of that. See what’s working, see what you enjoy, see what makes you think, “I would hate to do this anymore.” That can be really helpful.
What skills does a ghostwriter need to be successful?
Jim: What are the essential skills a ghostwriter needs to be successful?
Arlene: First, you need to be able to write. You have to have a passion for writing, and then you need to figure out what niche that passion fits. There’s nothing wrong with experimenting with different genres. You’re finding your style and yourself.
I talk to agents all the time who say they can tell when somebody has submitted their first novel because the voice, character development, and scenes will change a dozen times in the first five chapters. That’s the work the author should have been doing on their own, not trying to sell as part of that novel.
If you want to be a ghostwriter or make money writing, practice. Journal, find an article or something that interests you, and write about it. Create a blog. Get on social media. Read other people’s work, comment on it. All of that reading and writing develops your expertise.
If you’re green and new, there’s nothing wrong with being a ghostwriter where you’re getting paid to write. Lots of businesses have newsletters, in-house HR departments looking for writers, proposals, grant applications.
Start little and then grow. You may find, “I’m good at this but I don’t like it, so I’ll try something else.” Or you may say, “I’m okay at this but I love it.” That’s where you build your skill. Put yourself out there and write.
Don’t get greedy. Lay that foundation, make your money, let somebody else take the credit, build your street cred. You’ll eventually get to the point where you may not want to ghostwrite anymore because you’ve been there and done that. It’s all about one step at a time.
Jim: From a marketing standpoint, if you want to be traditionally published, going into an editor or agent and saying, “Look at my credits. I have met deadline after deadline, and here’s what I’ve written,” goes a long way. That editor or agent is going to take a more serious look at your proposal.
How does freelance ghostwriting help you at tax time?
Thomas: Doing this kind of freelance work, whether you’re getting a byline or not, is great for developing your career, but it’s also great for getting some income so you can demonstrate that this is a business for the IRS. Keep your bank account for your writing separate, both for expenses and income, and put it on your Schedule C.
We offer a course on tax advice for writers with an actual CPA who has been working with authors for longer than I’ve been alive. He’s my dad.
Every year we do a free tax Q&A episode, and one thing that always comes up is that it’s important to show some income. A lot of authors feel like the only income they can get is from the novel or that big nonfiction tome. That really shouldn’t be your first income. You should be trying to get base hits before you get your home run.
Can you still get references from ghostwriting clients?
Arlene: The terms of the contract dictate how you can speak or not speak to what you’re writing. If you’re ghostwriting for a bank, an insurance company, an engineering firm, or an architect, you could put in the contract that they don’t necessarily disclose that you wrote it, but you can tell prospective clients, “Contact this person for a reference.” That person will say, “She met her deadline, she did this, she did that,” without saying, “This is exactly what she wrote for me.” There’s some wiggle room in that ghostwriting definition.
Thomas: A lot of pages on the internet don’t have a byline. It’s not like somebody else is taking credit for your writing. It’s an about page for a corporation, and they need somebody to write the story of their company.
You might think, “I’m a novelist, I don’t want to write the story of a company.” But that doesn’t mean you can’t work in the kind of skills that would lead to a good scene or a good short story. Beginning, middle, end, a low point, a dark moment. All of these things would make a corporate page way more interesting and the sort of thing that would get you paid way more than a typical copywriter. Think outside the box.
Should you care whose name is on the cover?
Thomas: Examine your motivations. Why are you writing? Are you writing because you want to change the world, or because you want to be somebody? If it’s all about trying to be somebody, writing is not really the best path because very few writers become famous. You can sell a million copies and nobody at the grocery store knows who you are.
If you want to become famous, YouTube is maybe what you should pursue.
With ghostwriting, you would be shocked how much power and influence you can have just by sacrificing a little bit of credit.
There’s no limit to what you can do as long as you don’t care who gets the credit. Somebody else has the big name on the top of the book and you’re in very small font at the bottom. How much do you really care about the font size of your name? Sometimes if you’re willing to have a smaller font size, you get paid two, three, four times more than you would otherwise. Suddenly you can pay your mortgage when you couldn’t if you were insisting on all the glory.
Arlene: There was a time in my life when I just wanted to write because that’s what I love doing. If the check cleared, I was doubly happy. I just needed to pay the bills.
Is ghostwriting the fastest way to hone your craft?
Jim: This is an extremely powerful way to hone your craft. If you’re doing a website one day, a radio spot the next, an about page after that, a nonfiction book, an article, marketing, you will hone your craft in ways you never could if you just focused on writing novels.
Thomas: When I wrote the blog post that went viral on courtship and had thousands of people hating on me on the internet, I had a fortune cookie in my wallet for the next year that said, “He who gets the credit gets the blame,” because that really is how it works.
If the idea of marketing and public criticism is crippling for you, ghostwriting allows you to do what you love, which is writing, without having to do the marketing. Somebody else does all of that for you. There’s a totally different path where you just do the writing, and all you have to sacrifice is a little bit of glory.
You don’t even have to sacrifice very much money. Ghostwriters probably support their families in a much more consistent way than authors because it’s less hit-driven. Whether the book is successful or not, you get paid as a writer, so it takes away a lot of that risk.
For a certain personality type, the one who doesn’t like risk, doesn’t like criticism, doesn’t like blame, ghostwriting is a better fit.
There’s another personality type that wants to risk it all, loves attention and criticism. For them, ghostwriting will probably make them miserable. They’ll also have a hard time subverting their voice to somebody else’s. But if you’re a quieter person, ghostwriting could be a very lucrative alternative to the traditional path.
Do businesses need creative writers?
Arlene: When businesses need writing for a website or a magazine article to feature their expertise, whether it’s water treatment, landfills, or environmental work, they forget that the writing needs a beginning, middle, and end. If you’re a creative type, they can really benefit from you. Most business people are thinking, “These are the skills, these are the laws, these are the facts about the business,” but they can’t write it in a way their client can understand.
If you’re a creative type, a business could really use you to loosen up that necktie. The way so many websites come across is dry, cold, and disjointed.
Even if you’re writing nonfiction, it should be interesting. If you’re not going to be an interesting character as the lead in your story, then don’t write it. The same tools of creativity that apply in fiction should also apply in nonfiction. It needs to be interesting. People need to want to read it.
Thomas: Whatever you write, it’s got to be interesting.
Connect with Arlene
- Twitter: @arlene_gale
- Website: bookwritingbusiness.com
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